“Do what brings you great joy and meaning”
Dr. Dean Shrock
Dr. Veronica Anderson, Host, Functional Medicine Specialist and Medical Intuitive interviews Dr. Dean Shrock on how to reduce stress, love life & fight cancer.
Do you want to reduce stress and live the life you love? Director of psychological support services for a physician management group of 40 cancer centers Dr. Dean Shrock made a startling discovery about the inner working of love.
In this episode, Dr. Shrock shares his experiences and insights gained while teaching his program that strives to extend survival with cancer. Listen to the end, to hear how he reconciles intuition and science.
Listen to episode 25 on iTunes here or subscribe on your favorite podcast app.
25: Show Notes
Dr. Veronica Anderson’s Links
Dr. Dean Shrock: Doctors Orders Go Fishing
05:15 – Doctors orders to go fishing
08.01 – Stop and smell the roses
11:30 – Health emotions
12:30 – Are we making ourselves sick
16:30 – Love and cancer connection
19:15 – Breast Cancer
23:40 – Listen to your heart
25:30 – Reconcile intuition with science
Female VO: Welcome to the Wellness Revolution Podcast, the radio show all about wellness in your mind, body, spirit, personal growth, sex, and relationships. Stay tuned for weekly interviews featuring guests that have achieved physical, mental, and spiritual health in their lives.
If you’d like to have access to our entire back catalog visit drveronica.com for instant access. Here’s your host, Dr. Veronica.
Dr. Veronica: I’m Dr. Veronica, medical doctor and medical intuitive. You can reach me at drveronica.com and on Wellness for the Real World. We want to help you live a better you, live a better life and your purpose, and entertain you also. We’re going to talk about doctor’s orders today.
At this point in my career I had a traditional medical career, traditional medical doctor, now I do left-field stuff that actually helps people even more now. There are times when I have people that I’m coaching, and everybody has a lot of stress in their life. And I have to make them take off time to come see me. They don’t want to take off time to come see me necessarily, but make them take off time to come to my office and see me.
I do coaching over the phone, remotely, and all that other type of stuff. But there are some people that I’m just like, “You have to slow down. And part of your slowing down is you have to come to my office so that we could talk knee to knee.
Why do I do that? Because i understand that there’s a lot that impacts your health that you’re not even thinking about. You’re saying, “I got stress.” And you know it’s making you sick, but you don’t know exactly how it’s making you sick. And these diseases of the mind like stress can lead to problems in the body such as cancer. Yes, it can. If you believe it, it will happen. You can manifest it in your body. Your fear, anger, and sadness will go into one of your energy systems, sitting there long enough, unresolved, and become a physical illness or an injury.
And this is the kind of work that I do with people as a medical intuitive. I help them see what’s going on between their spiritual and emotional, and then on the other side with their physical and link together. And I love doing this. It’s just fascinating even to me now. That even when I do it it’s just fascinating to be able to know somebody’s first name, last initial, their age, and their sex, never meet them and to be able to do a reading on them. And tell them about them from a physical and a spiritual and emotional standpoint, and then be able to give them strategies to begin the change and begin the heal.
This is the type of work that I do as a medical intuitive. I’m claircognizant, I’m clairvoyant, this is something that I didn’t talk about before. My not talking about it, as you might have heard before resulted in me having a major knee injury. And one of my spiritual advisors said to me, “You had this injury because you’re not using your intuitive abilities, and they’re very strong.”
We’re going to talk a little bit about why maybe your doctor more should be writing prescriptions for you to… I do this about once a month. Go to the spa, go fishing, go on vacation, unplug, and do all these things. I have a gentleman here, Dr. Dean Shrock. And he is the author of a book, Doctor’s Orders: Go Fishing. And we’re going to talk about Doctor’s Orders: Go Fishing.
But let me just tell you a little bit more about Dr. Shrock because this man is very learned, as all of my guests are. And he’s actually a co-author in a book of Dr. Andrew Weil, who’s one of the gurus all of us in who are in health and wellness follow, integrative oncology. Dr. Andrew Weil, you guys know who he is.
Dr. Shrock has written other books such as Why Love Heals, and Living and Thriving: A Mind, Body, Spirit Program for Wellness. He was the director of Mind-Body medicine for a physician management group of 40 cancer centers. This man, he’s a PhD, not an MD, knows probably more than your doctor does about how to manage cancer from the mind, body, spirit way, so that you, once you get through the chemotherapy, radiation, and all that, can actually stay well. Because you’re wondering, “Why did I get sick in the first place?” Now you know you did.
We’re going to welcome Dr. Dean Shrock. By the way, I want you guys to know that Russell is there in background as usual. He’s going to jump in. I know you love hearing his voice like I do. Dr. Dean Shrock, welcome to Wellness for the Real World.
Dr. Dean: Thank you Dr. Veronica. Thank you Russ.
Dr. Veronica: Dr. Shrock, tell us a little bit about the genesis of this book, Doctor’s Orders: Go Fishing.
Dr. Dean: I was in this position to develop all psychological services for these cancer centers. And I had worked closely with Dr. Carl Simonton who was one of the real pioneers of what we call psychosocial oncology. And so I decided to develop a program similar to Dr. Simonton’s, and it primarily was around the idea of the will to live, helping people find their greatest joy and direction in life.
What I found in working with people is that if I could tell stories and be more conversational than just side research they were way more responsive. They listened a whole lot better. I thought about what these people really loved. We were based in Central Pennsylvania where I was actually born, and I knew of all things the value of deer hunting.
In fact the first of deer season, it’s always the Monday following Thanksgiving weekend, they actually close public schools in most of Pennsylvania for people to go buck hunting. And what was really fascinating Dr. Veronica was that in our cancer centers in Pennsylvania is that we could lose up to two-thirds of our patients that first week of buck season. I don’t care what sick they were or whatever, they were going to be on the woods.
Anyhow, I quickly realized if I told them to go fishing rather than deer hunting… I came up with fishing because it’s a more serene image. Believe this, I was living in a town called Fisherman’s Paradise. There were people fly fishing behind my house in the biggest trout stream in Pennsylvania, Spring Creek, all the time, and it was just this perfect image of what you were saying earlier, stop and smell the roses. Do what brings you great joy and meaning.
And so that became my mantra. And people really caught on such that when I would see them even years later, if I hadn’t seen them for a while, they would come up to me and say, “Dr. Shrock, I’m going fishing.” And so I knew my message had gotten through. And even though it sounded like maybe an odd title for a book, I said, “No, that’s got to be the title.” That’s why I came up with Doctor’s Orders: Go Fishing. People, as you’ve already said, really need to slow down and do much more of what brings them great joy and meaning in their life.
Dr. Veronica: One question about that. People are listening. I’m here. We’re in the fast-paced northeast, the Philadelphia and New York area, where people feel that they don’t have the luxury to even slow down. Even people who have their finances in order and what they consider to be a solid job or position don’t feel that they can. How do you advise those of us who feel like, “I just can’t slow down because life will leave me behind if I do slow down.”
Dr. Dean: What I did was explain to them when they were however informed that they had cancer, and told that here were their options for treatment, whether that was radiation, chemotherapy, or surgery. I said, “Almost certainly you didn’t say “I’m too busy” to your doctor, or to your family, or whomever else. You, and if it were radiation for example, took off your life for about six weeks. If you had to miss work you missed work. Whatever you did, you adjusted your schedule to get to those treatments. The point is that it’s always a matter of priorities. You will do what you honestly believe you need to do.
And so that’s how I started to get their attention was, beyond then I had more time to really teach them about when you’re busy doing what you like to do you tend to forget your aches and pains. And then about psychoneuroimmunology, and so forth. And how they feel honestly registers in their bodies, and more specifically in their immune system. And you can ignore me. You can ignore this. But it will come back and bite you.
Dr. Veronica: You had some surprises that you discovered when you’re teaching your wellness programs to cancer patients and their family. What are those surprises?
Dr. Dean: The first big one Dr. Veronica was they thought this was too selfish. Not just that they were too busy to stop and do this, but that it just didn’t fit their somehow social conditioning that everybody else and everything else is supposed to come first. I had to really then think about that and explain to them why this was really essential. This wasn’t some kind of luxury, or some immoral or inappropriate behavior.
And so I developed what I call the idea of having them think about their needs, and that they will get them met appropriately or inappropriately, but they will get them met. For example someone has a cold or the flu. We tend to say that the reason they got the cold or the flu is because their body’s telling them they really needed to slow down or rest. They always came up with that.
And so I say the implication is that had you slowed down or rested it might not have gotten the colder flow. And I gave them lots more examples like that, that indeed if you ignore your needs they will come back and express themselves in a way, and usually through your house if you don’t do that. And it can absolutely include something as serious as cancer, or chronic pain, or any other disease process.
I happen to value intuition as well, and the process and helping people, go inside and connect with their own inner wisdom and deeper reasons for why people get sick. And I would say the most common thing that’s come up is the idea of joy, is that people have lost joy in their lives. And so they can say this is too selfish or they’re too busy, but I know too much about this. If they ignore it, then it will manifest in their bodies in some way.
Dr. Veronica: Yes. And so I got to tag on to that. You have those health harming emotions. There’s every emotion that you have boils down to five emotions. There are three that are health harming and two that are health promoting. The health harming emotions are fear, anger, and sadness. And the health promoting emotions are love and joy.
And so we’re in a country where we’re spending the most money in the world per person on health care, yet we rank number 50 among countries in health status. I believe it’s because we’re really angry in this country, and that love and joy, we don’t have a lot of love and joy. How many examples do we see of love and joy. And so I believe what you’re saying Shrock is we need more love and joy. And once we have more love and joy we’re going to be healthier.
But I want to ask, when we put it this way, people say, “You’re blaming the victim.” How can you say that we made ourselves sick? What do you say to that Dr. Shrock?
Dr. Dean: It’s like when we were younger and we thought it was actually cool to smoke cigarettes, and we had no idea. We thought it was actually cool to smoke cigarettes, and we had no idea about Trans fats and other foods, and how unhealthy they can be. Now that we know better do we feel guilty for having not done some something we didn’t understand or know anything about?
We can deny the fact of how these things affect us, nutrition, exercise, poor stress management, but that doesn’t change the fact of it. So rather than focus on what you’ve been doing and then feel guilty about it, is to now focus on what can I do to change this. And it’s always about improving our odds.
I used to joke, forgive me, with physicians, when people would go to doctors, do you remember when they signed their name in blood? I guarantee you’ll get well if you get this treatment? It often makes them laugh and they appreciate. No, it’s always about improving your odds.
And so that’s why the way I teach I like to say that I won’t guarantee people if they do what I teach that they’re going to get better. But I will guarantee that they’ll increase their odds. I know too much about the placebo effect for example, that people really believe and expect in fact is going to come true one-third of the time, so that you can get whatever medical treatment you want. But the greatest reason why, in my opinion and in my experience, is that you respond to that treatment is because your belief in that treatment or the person administrating, and so forth.
It’s a fact of life. And I just do my best to help people understand that there are things you can do that will help you, and there are things you can do that’s going to work against you.
Dr. Veronica: Russell, what say you about all this?
Russell: Hello there Dr. Shrock. This is very interesting stuff. I am curious, back when you started developing this wellness program, what moved you to do that? Were you already starting to see patterns in different patients about who got better? Was this noticeable to you and that spurred you to start studying it more scientifically? Or you did you start with the science looking for items that improve people’s chances?
Dr. Dean: Actually this might surprise you Russ but before I went back to graduate school I had worked with a man who had been psychic all of his life and had developed his own self-help related program. And the primary threat to this program was teaching people how to manifest love, how to have more love in their life, to live love. And it was through that process of teaching and working with them, and studying and developing my own intuition I knew that I needed to go back and study this.
And honestly, initially I still doubted the power of the mind. They used to call it Walt Disney. All you have to do is wish upon a star and your dream comes true. It was honestly offensive to me initially. But the more I studied and the more I worked with this, and especially about 10 years I’m teaching this self-help program and then interning with Carl Simonton that I knew that there was something to this. There’s no reservations about that.
And because fortunately, and surprisingly to some extent with all of these physicians, the head of all of this gave me really free reign to develop this program. I was able to teach it. And patients responded very, very well. Then the doctor’s liked it and one thing led to another. And then Penn State University, someone in their biobehavioral health department researched what we were doing and found that it actually improved survival with cancer.
Dr. Veronica: Okay. Let’s talk about that survival and cancer. That’s really important because people who have cancer or have had cancer, that’s what you’re concerned about, living longer. Let’s talk about how love and cancer are connected.
Dr. Dean: I would say not just cancer, I want to say a disease process or a breakdown in the body. But this is where it becomes a little more theoretical or metaphysical, and less… You can bring in quantum physics to help appreciate the fact that underlying all the physical reality, there is this quantum field…
For example Dr. David Bohm who taught at Princeton University, a theoretical physicist said that this energy field is really one of harmony and order. Essentially you could call it a field of love. And when you are resonating with this core fact of who we are, then you are operating most efficiently.
Let me give you of an example maybe that’s a little more practical. In electricity when we attempt to measure the flow of it we actually use an ohmmeter, and in that process we’re actually measuring the resistance to the flow of that electricity. There’s the term in phase. When we say electricity is it flowing in phase? It means it’s flowing with the least amount of resistance.
And that’s what I believe happens when we are exposed to love and loving behavior and experiences, that it is now resonating with his core of the universe and who we are. And therefore the least resistance to the flow of this life force energy that has been given many names throughout history, whether we call it the life force or qi, chi, whatever. And therefore I believe, honestly health is just a byproduct when we align ourselves with this core energy of the universe and the core truth of who we are.
Dr. Veronica: Okay. Let me ask this. One of the observations that a lot of people have made about cancer patients, people who have cancer, is there’s been a couple of things. One is a lot of them at one time or another have had a death wish. And the other part of it is that these people are having… This is a seventh recent system problem, up in the top of the chakra, a crisis of faith, a crisis of being connected to the source, but also more than anything, a lack of self-love. What would you say about that?
Dr. Dean: With self-love I think you’ve hit the nail on the head to be certain, but the way I define self-love is the idea of aligning yourself with the truth of who you are. As I said earlier, in helping people go within and really ask their heart, their own inner wisdom or their soul, what’s really going on. The biggest factor that came up is the lack of joy in their lives. And another thing that I can say more specifically about breast cancer is that…
Dr. Veronica: You’re reading my mind. I was thinking about, say something about breast cancer. Go on.
Dr. Dean: This is my opinion and my experience. Sometimes we use the term target organ. Why when cancer expressed itself in the body does it express as colon cancer, breast cancer, or lung cancer. And what I have found is that the breast, I call the nurturing organ. And so with many women who I worked with, they were truly examples of people who did what everyone else wanted. They were the stereotype of “I’m the mother. I’m the wife. And everybody else comes first.” And in that process of denying herself, then that’s where the illness was going to manifest.
In shamanism there’s a great belief that everything is connected and that symptoms are what I call benevolent messengers. They’re just ways to get your attention, to let you know that’s something out of balance in your life. And so it’s going to manifest some way, somewhere, somehow, and whether there is a relationship to where in the body or what type of disease is the underlying issue.
Sometimes I don’t see that direct correlation. But there’s no question, as you said, when you’re experiencing anger or holding on to resentment and other negative feelings or emotions, you’re going to interfere with the flow of the life force energy. And it’s going to express itself one way or another.
Dr. Veronica: It’s interesting because breasts are in the fourth energy system, the fourth chakra. Notice it’s around your heart chakra. And so if you noticed that if you’re a woman and you have been through breast cancer, if you do not fix what was the underlying spiritual and emotional issue that was going on that led to the cancer in the first place… It’s not just about what’s going on physical, your mind and your body, your mind shifts what’s going on in your body to allow the cancer to take root there, and to tell you something’s going on and it’s time to change.
You can fix the cancer. You can get chemo and radiation and say, “You’re cured.” But guess what, you don’t fix what’s going on in that heart chakra area, you’ll have a heart attack, or you’ll have a lung problem, or you’ll have lymph edema, or you’ll have a problem with your shoulders, or you’ll have a problem in that part of your back. You’ll have a problem that will manifest, when one thing gets fixed something else will break down if you do not do something to shift the spiritual aspects that were going on. That fear, anger, and sadness that allowed your physiology to change must be shifted to love and joy. And for women with breast cancer you have to put more joy into loving you and doing for you without guilt or shame that you’re doing.
And so it’s wonderful that you’re a mother and you’re a nurturer, because this is the wonderful gift that the universe gave us as women. They gave all of us as women, most of us. Some people, you can’t do it, and that’s a whole another topic. But it gave us the ability to be nurturers, and lovers, and things like that. But if you overdo it for other people and don’t do it enough for yourself and then you feel guilty about yourself. And a lot of times you’re not even thinking this way or ashamed to think this way, you don’t fix it, it’s going to manifest someplace else in that same energy system
The Power of the Heart, you have some involvement in this book. Tell us a little bit about that. We’re getting towards wrapping up time, so I just want to get a little bit in about The Power of the Heart. Tell us about that.
Dr. Dean: Okay. A fella named Baptist de Pape was at a point in his life where he was asking a question, “What do I really want to do with my life.” And he found himself asking the question, “Maybe I should be asking what does life want for me.” And the idea of listening to his heart like when we meditate, and what is the information that comes through from our heart telling us what would really bring us the greatest joy and happiness, and health in our lives.
And so he went around the world about five or six years ago, interviewing what he called the greatest spiritual teachers, and people who otherwise were inspirational in their messages. And I was fortunate to be included among the 18, Maya Angelou, Eckhart Tolle, Deepak Chopra, and Marianne Williamson. And so he recorded an put on a video, a DVD, these messages, and a couple of other wonderful stories. But in the book titled The Power of the Heart, he had statements from all of these people talking about the importance of really listening to our soul or our heart, and letting it guide us.
And I’m certain in my work and experience that, that is the thing we need to do. You and I are so trained in science and value science, and I still do. But I also know that there is a deeper wisdom that comes from within. And I’m very pleased to be part of this best-selling international book, and helped Baptist, and spread this message of the power of your heart and the importance of listening to your heart.
Dr. Veronica: In a 30-second answer, can you reconcile intuition with science?
Dr. Dean: First, there actually is a great deal of science. It’s just that on the surface intuition is the antithesis of science, because science is everything. It has to be objectively measurable, where intuition is more feeling-based and something you learn to trust. And I’ve been doing this for almost 40 years now. So over time I’ve really learned to trust when I get a message a certain way, or it feels a certain way, and how it comes in.
So I just know for a great deal of personal experience, and I don’t ask people necessarily to believe a thing I say. I just express my experiences, and my opinions, and why, and then it’s up to other people if they want to follow this ages old message of listening to your heart. Go within, follow your bliss. These messages have been there a long time and I encourage people to hopefully give them a chance in their lives.
Dr. Veronica: Wonderful. This is Dr. Dean Shrock. We’ve been talking to his website deanshrock.com. I’m Dr. Veronica on Wellness for the Real World, with my co-host Russell. If you want to get me, drveronica.com. I’d love bringing you these interesting guests like Dr. Dean Shrock. I thank you Dr. Shrock. This is Wellness for the Real World. Tune in next time.
Female VO: Thank you for listening to the Wellness Revolution Podcast. If you want to hear more on how to bring wellness into your life visit drveronica.com. See you all next week. Take care.
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Dr. Veronica Anderson is an MD, Functional Medicine practitioner, Homeopath. and Medical Intuitive. As a national speaker and designer of the Functional Fix and Rejuvenation Journey programs, she helps people who feel like their doctors have failed them. She advocates science-based natural, holistic, and complementary treatments to address the root cause of disease. Dr. Veronica is a highly-sought guest on national television and syndicated radio and hosts her own radio show, Wellness for the REAL World, on FOX Sports 920 AM “the Jersey” on Mondays at 7:00 pm ET.